Whereas the counterculture as a culture, as a way of life ... you can't catch up with it, it's in the bloodstream of society. You can't pin it down. Its effect is continuously corrosive. It's these capsules they stick in people that keep feeding medicine into their bloodstream for twenty years. The more the poetry of music is massive confrontation, the less effective it is. It may be effective in a very limited range, but the other thing is effective over a long term. This is true of the whole protest-rock and protest-folk bit. Young people are wise to the fact that Donovan is more revolutionary than Dylan. The whole thing that has grown up around Leonard Cohen is more subversive than Country Joe and the Fish. And as the years go by, it becomes completely phony. Play Pete Seeger singing "I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night" ... it would make you throw up.